The Hive: November 2009

I don't usually post anything serious on this blog; it is more of a place for me to journal our everyday life and to vent. But I think that blogging about this and hearing your input and just simply sorting it out on "paper" might help me to stabilize my faith.

Last week I was having a crazy morning with the kids. Just one of those pull-your-hair-out days and around noon the Jehovah's witnesses stopped by. I was going to ignore them but they were pretty persistent and I thought I should probably just answer. So I opened the door to an older woman and a middle-aged man entirely prepared to say my usual "no thanks" and send them on their merrily deceived way. But apparently God had other plans because they ended up staying for 45 minutes.

Now Tuesday I was having another exceptionally hard morning and at noon there was once again a knock on my front door. I knew it was them as the older woman had said she would like to return and talk with me some more and I had told her she was welcome to but to please wait until my husband was home in the evening. Anyway, I once again planned to ignore them and then my boys decided to stand right next to the door and scream and fight about who got to open it. They knocked louder and I finally relented and answered the door.
It was the same older woman, we'll call her "T", and a woman around my age who we will call "A". T asked if I talked to my husband about them coming and talking with us and I told her he would be willing but I had no idea when he would be able. Well, one thing led to another and they stayed for an hour.

I wanted to set the scene for you a little so that you might be better able to understand where I am coming from. And why it may sound a little discombobulated. It's because I was and kind of still am.

Last Week:

As "T" and "B"(the man) asked if I wanted to read over their pamphlet that was about "5 Common Myths About the Bible" I noticed one of them said "The Myth of the Immortal Soul" and one was the myth about Hell. I told them that I would decline the material because I do believe that our souls exist after death and that I also believe there is Hell.

"B" asked if I really believed that God would cause His children to suffer for eternity. To which I said, "No. God's children will not suffer for eternity, only those who deny Him will. And He's not the one who causes the suffering, we as humans are." Then he rephrased to, "Do you really believe God would allow those he lovingly created to suffer?" And I said, "No. He gives us every opportunity to choose Him and He tells us how to do it. He gave us a Redeemer so that we would not have to be cast into Hell. But He also gave us a will to choose which way we will go. Then He gave us the Bible so that we would know about it all."

I was then told that the Bible never says there is a Hell and that it never says the soul exists beyond death. This was "backed up" by countless Scriptures which I don't recall because I wasn't listening but praying that God would be with me.

I asked how they explain the story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man? And I was given some strange explaination about how the Jews had a pit outside the city where they would burn dead animals and the criminals bodies and that that is the pit of fire. I was quite confused as to how they decided that this is what Jesus was speaking of so we looked at the passage.

Luke 16:19-31
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 "desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 'for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

I asked what they thought Jesus meant when he spoke of the rich man's torment and how exactly he was in torment if his soul ceased to exist.

They told me that Jesus was only usuing this as an illustration. To which I then asked what He might be illustrating if not life after death.

And so our discussion went. It was not until after they had gone that I realized they had not answered what Jesus was illustrating. I began to ponder what the Bible actually says about Hell and the soul. After some reflection, I realize that Jesus' soul purpose in this story may have been that people will not believe even when He rises from the dead.
If this is so, then why the references to where they were after their death? And what would someone risen from the dead be warning them of?

This is what I've found on Hell so far:

2 Peter Chapter 2

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

This led me to look up fallen angels.

Jude 5-7

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

There are also many passages where Jesus mentions Hell or Hades.

Mark 9:42-50
Luke 12:1-10
Rev 1:18

Also Revelation 20:14&15 says:

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire

And Job chapter 26 talks of the dead being in great anguish.

I am sure that many of you know numerous other passages that speak of these things but I feel that God used these ones to show me the truth. I have not completed my study of the soul and how we know whether or not it is immortal and I welcome any help you all can give on any of these matters.

Next time I will share what we talked about on Tuesday: Is Jesus actually God? I was very upset when I couldn't think of a passage that says just that but God has shown me some amazing things this past week. I can't wait to share!

Okay, I've done this before but I'm going to copycat all of you.

1) Avril is still coughing. Tomorrow marks one week since it started. I am seriously torn about taking her to the doctor. I have been paranoid of pneumonia. I searched it and 'it' says that infants usually get the viral kind and that antibiotics don't usually work with that. So if all the doctor is going to do is to tell me to give her lots of fluids and rest... Well, I am already doing that.

2) Ebay. I am selling my boys' baby clothes this week. I don't know why this is so difficult for me. Maybe I'm not done and that's why I'm struggling with getting rid of them?

3) I am SO done! Three seems like a very good number to me. While we aren't doing anything permanant at this point, I feel very content with our little family. I struggle with this as well. Is it right? Is it wrong? The Bible says children are a blessing and that blessed is the man whose quiver is full. But it doesn't say we are required to have as many children as physically possible. And even so, I do not think that it would be good for my mental health, or my family, if I were pregnant again. I'm worse every time! Just now starting to feel like my old self.

4) Would the ocean be fuller if there weren't any sponges in it?

5) Bad apple. We did it. We wasted nearly our whole crop of apples. There were so many other projects to be done and it froze really early this year. We salvaged quite a few and called to make an appointment at the press. Well, they shut down for the year. So there goes the remaining apples. Jay picked out the best ones. About a laundry basket full. All I have to do it cut, core, peel, and freeze them for pies and things. Not necessarily in that order.

6) Why do I have so much laundry?

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with this little imp and his chocolate face rubbing themselves all around my freshly folded whites.

7) Anybody have any suggestions on how I can sit on my rear eating bon bons all day and still lose weight? Maybe I just need a thigh master! Hey Crystal, how can I eat whatever I want and only weigh 80 pounds? Not to say that all you do is sit around...

8) My boys are being eerily quiet. I better go check and see what they are up to.

Too cute! They are sitting on their beds drawing with their magna-doodles. Not making a sound. This is a rare moment.

9) I am running out of ideas for dinner these days. I try to stay away from dairy as much as possible, although the boys seem to be tolerating it much better now. And I do not care for seafood. I just don't know what to make that is healthy yet not monotonous or extremely time consuming. Any suggestions?

10) I have recently realized that I struggle with pride. I know we all do in some form but I never realized how much I enjoy taking credit for kind things I do. I always thought that of all the sins, this was one I didn't particularly have a problem with. But I do.